Welcome to another episode of B2B Marketing & More! Today I have a special guest, David Fortino, Chief Strategist for Netline. David is specialized in audience development, and retention with strength focused on the B2B market.
Today we talk about a specific B2B Content and Demand Report that he managed for the fifth year in a row: the 2021 State of Content Consumption and Demand Report. For this report, David’s team analyzed 4.3 million gated content at Netline.
In this episode:
- Learn more about Netline and what is it that they do.
- The biggest takeaways from the report.
- Trends in content consumption.
- What are the most popular content formats?
- Trends in webinars and communication with the audience.
- Breakdown on webinar audience registration and attendance.
- How to reach a C-suite audience with content?
- What is first-party consumption and why it’s better than third-party consumption?
- How to use technology to collect accurate data from gated content and the challenges?
- How can marketers incorporate security, predictability, and simplicity in their content?
- Lessons from COVID and how they affect marketing.
- Is there are a way to narrow the gap for content consumption?
- The role of automation in content marketing and customer experience.
Quotes from the episode:
“If you want to educate a C-suite person, the best thing you could do is distil things into an ultra-fine brief, with quick-hitting topics and talking points.”
“COVID taught us that there was a necessity to move faster than we felt comfortable moving. And because of that, nothing could be produced in the way and the level of depth and refinement that maybe we would have typically felt comfortable doing or needing to do.”
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To expand your knowledge about B2B marketing download the B2B Content and Demand Report here. Also, you can check out some of my previous podcast episodes, articles and videos.
Today, we have a very, very special guest David Fortino, Chief Strategist for Netline. Oh my God. He’s going to talk to us about a specific report that he managed. And this report is the fifth year that he has been doing it, and it’s called the 2021 State of Content Consumption and Demand report. His team analyzed 4.3 million gated content that Netline, and they do a lot of analysis regarding what kind of report has been open. And also, you know, when people register for the report and when they started, um, like consuming it. There’s a lot of insight in that specific report.
So, Hey, welcome, David. So happy to have you!
David Fortino: Thank you so much. Yeah, I’m super excited to be here. I am looking forward to digging in and trying to decipher some of this data. Hopefully, there are some cool nuggets that you and I can mull over and, you know, maybe applies to some future campaign executions.
Pam Didner: Yeah, that will be fantastic. I’m pretty sure B2B marketers will be very interested to hear your insight. First of all, can you tell us a little bit about Netline and what does your company do? And also a little bit about this report. I know I mentioned a little bit of a high level, but give us more detail.
David Fortino: Absolutely. Yeah. So Netline is the largest content-centric lead gen platform on the web. Ultimately, if you’re a B2B marketer and you’re producing content with the express purpose of trying to drive pipeline, right? You want to use that great content you’ve spent a ton of time producing and effort, yet you’re trying to drive dialog with prospects. We are a platform that allows marketers to do that in a scalable and targeted fashion. It’s completely performance-based.
The net result is that through the platform, we’re now supporting close to 14,000 pieces of content that B2B marketers are promoting to their various audiences. Those 14,000 pieces of content translate into millions of leads. Those leads have a ton of different rich data sets, which are all first-party provided–so users typing in forms, providing their own fully permission data is what powered this report. And so we’re big fans of letting the data do the talking. We’re not huge fans of providing a ton of editorial commentary or conjecture on top of the data.
And as you said, yeah, this is our fifth time doing this. It’s a massive undertaking. We’re a small team – three of us in the marketing or good are responsible for this. And, two of them, not me, are responsible for creating the vast majority of this and making it look and feel and read the way it does. So, I’m the one who gets stuck out here and gets to do the fun stuff with you. But, uh, yeah, there’s a lot better work happening behind the scenes.
Pam Didner: With this report, can you share the biggest takeaway with us, like two or three?
David Fortino: Yeah, there’s a lot. Um, yeah, I suppose at a human level, the one intriguing thing I didn’t even consider thinking about this type of stuff in B2B marketing is life and death. Right. And that’s something that’s never been covered historically in our sphere ever by anyone.
Pam Didner: I mean, I don’t think marketing is anything life and death, right. I don’t have a deadline. “Oh, the email needs to be sent out today. You know, a report needs to be published next Monday!” But if we missed that deadline by 24 hours for some reason, there are no biggest consequences except, you know, a company’s major product launch, right? If part of the launch is in New York City, you have to be there. You have to be on stage. I get it. But in general, marketing is not life and death (laughs).
David Fortino: Exactly. And it’s funny that to go off too off tangent here, but I tell my team, and maybe I’m telling my team because I’m telling myself this is that when we have a deadline to hit if it just feels like we’re, it’s not going to be right. So long as it’s not an external product launch where we need to physically be somewhere, let’s just buy another 24 hours and say, “it’s okay, let’s do this. Right. And no one’s going to live or die. No one, I can assure you, no one out there in the world is waiting for your marketing content to land in their inbox.” Right?
So, getting to the life and death thing, um, what was encouraging was that the world was melting, right? Everything was catastrophic, really falling apart. Professionals at their core were not only shaken in terms of, is my company going to exist through this? Are our customers going to persevere and be able to pay us? But am I also going to have a job? What does that look like? And then ultimately, how am I just as a human being safe? And so what was encouraging was that through this moment in our history where professionals were faced with a level of uncertainty that was never really encountered before, at least that, you know, I’m not sure. Still, I’m not young, and it’s certainly not in my lifespan that we’ve experienced something like this.
So they turned it down content, though, to find solutions. And to me, the most intriguing aspect there was that instead of perhaps as humans kind of sucking ourselves back into a shell and just hoping to get through this, people leaned into content and said, “you know what? This is crazy, and it’s scary, but I’m not going to sit still and wait for the world to dictate my outcomes. I’m going to go research. I’m going to level up my skills, and I’m going to decide how to be best equipped with the knowledge to get through this period.”
Pam Didner: Sounds like the biggest takeaway is the audience or the, uh, the, the people are leaning into content to look for comfort and answers. Right. And you see the content consumption went upright in 2020,
David Fortino: Correct. Yeah. By, uh, what was it? Over 22% increase from the prior year. At a moment where if you watch the B2B space, right? Most marketing orgs were put on pause for a period where they were afraid to do much. They didn’t know what to do. They didn’t know. They didn’t know what to create. They didn’t, you know, all of that. Yet your buyers said, “well, we still have a business to run, and if you’re not going to create content that speaks to me, someone else is, and I’m going to be out there trying to educate myself to get through this period.”
So it’s a great learning lesson for marketers that, you know, hopefully, we don’t have to go through something like this again. But if you’re facing some level of challenge and the industry perhaps is going through some, I don’t know, governmental regulation, don’t be silent, right. Be out there constantly leading your buyers versus waiting for them to, you know, find someone else to educate them through that period of need.
Pam Didner: So, um, what is a knowledge takeaway from your perspective in terms of content consumption? For example, what formats tend to be most popular?
David Fortino: So on the format side, eBooks perennially lead the way. It’s comical. It doesn’t matter what trends are happening. It doesn’t matter. And this is for years now; our distillation here is because the naming convention of an ebook sounds approachable, in an approachable format that can be digested on my terms. And it certainly sounds like it’s not coming through a corporate lens as much as a white paper would be.
We know eBooks can be abused, as well. They can be nothing full of corporate nonsense– which that shouldn’t be the case. But again, you know, we are covering this from a perspective of first-party data people registering for content.
And so, yeah, eBooks are by far away from the most popular type of asset that said live webinars. This past year experienced massive growth, and we’re all, you know, we’re all well versed on that.
Pam Didner: Some sort of like zoom or webinar fatigue.
David Fortino: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s a bit of that. And especially on the Zoom side, um, Uh, you know, how often do we all have to have face-to-face meetings and try to recreate what we were doing in our offices? I don’t know. On the webinars side, I struggle with this because we do not see a decline in registration data for people registering for webinars. So part of them, I don’t know, this editorial trend that’s out in this space is that there’s burnout for webinars. If I’m, you know, really quality checking that or fact-checking that statement, the data doesn’t support that from a registration perspective. People are still registering at the same level they have been.
Pam Didner: So, David, I agree with you, the registration didn’t go down, and I can see it in the past one and a half years when I do my webinar. But the things that were going down – I’m not sure you have this information to support it, at least at your end – the things that are going down is actual attendance.
David Fortino: Agreed.
Pam Didner: I did not see my webinar registration go down much. The actual attendance of the webinar has been going down, or it has fluctuated quite a bit. Maybe that has a lot to do with the topics. But when I talk to multiple different companies or even industry conferences that have been doing a webinar, they also see the declines in the webinar attendance. Does that make sense?
David Fortino: No, that makes a ton of sense. Look, you know, people are distracted, and they might be very well-intending to show up for the webinar, but then it’s a Thursday afternoon. They’ve been at home, and it’s a beautiful day.
Pam Didner: Right, or you know, “the baby’s crying!” I’m just going to tend the baby first!
David Fortino: Right, right. The other takeaway always sticks with me. And it’s hilarious because it’s always perennially the case yet. There’s a massive disconnect with what marketers like to execute against is that. The vast majority of B2B content consumption occurs below the C-suite. So this past year was 87% of all content registered for occurred below the C-Suite.
Pam Didner: That’s expected, right? I mean, the worker bees are looking for information.
David Fortino: So it makes sense, right? Yeah. Logical, totally logical. Yet you’ll commonly have B2B marketers come and say, “well, I’ve been talking to our agency” or “our CMOs demanding that we break into the C-suite at these targeted accounts and let’s just exclusively target the C-suite.” Well, it turns out those people don’t register for content in the first place. And so you’re, you’re chasing a non-existent outcome and ignoring the fact that the whole point of an organization is it is a bit of a hierarchical structure, right? You’ve got people who do the work, as you said, the worker bees. Those are the people that are vetting solutions, researching outcomes, making recommendations internally.
Yet there are countless marketers, and I’m talking like thousands tasked with breaking into the C-suite and using content to try to do that. And there’s a massive disconnect because the reality is if that’s what your expectation is, you will fail. Suppose you expect to educate decision-makers and influencers in that company of the C-suite, great by all means. And that makes sense. But it’s comically this repetitious process that’s constantly occurred every year. And, uh, I don’t see that changing.
Pam Didner: You know, you brought a very good point. I was a corporate marketer in the past, and even when I was in the corporate, I tried to create content and guess what? The target audience tends to do a C-suite. And I think a lot of time has a lot to do with a company thinking they want to create a thought leadership story or a thought leadership narrative. And, uh, they feel that the best way to do that is to reach out to a C-suite.
And also C-suite, you are right, it’s a very finicky type of crowd. They read information, but they read the information very selectively. I hear your point in terms of, uh, when you are creating content. You have to think through in terms of who your target audiences are. We may not be the type of audience, depending on the industry you want to go after. Even though you wanted to create that thought leadership position, you should always use that to target them and get your content consumed.
David Fortino: Yeah. And what’s interesting there too. And you had mentioned this phrase, thought leadership. There tends to be this conclusion by CMOs to create thought leadership to con, to convey some level of authority to other C-suite executives at another company. Yet, if you asked yourself as the CMO or C-suite person in your company, do you have time to read all of that content? You don’t. And so the best thing you could do is if you wanted to educate a C-suite person is distil things into an ultra-fine brief that is nothing but quick-hitting topics and talking points and nothing more. And skip the thought leadership nonsense in that use case. Thought leadership certainly has its role, but you’re also talking to other leaders. They don’t need to be led. Right. These people are leaders. Um, they may know as much as you on the topic, if not more. There are many cases where your customers ultimately come to you, knowing more about your company than your salespeople. In that case, it’s like give them an arm with data, facts, nuggets that they need to know and nothing more.
They’re smart. They’ll connect the dots. They’ll know when to find out and reach out to you. And how would you do that?
Pam Didner: Got it. So another takeaway, when I was reading a report, seems to be the content consumption throughout the week is pretty consistent. A lot of data, at least on the social media on the B2B side, tend to be Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday on that good time to reach out to our target audience, including email marketing. But your data suggested that the consumption–based on the 4.3 million content pieces and register– that the people consume content very evenly.
David Fortino: Yeah. And that’s not the way it’s ever been. It’s always been Tuesdays and Wednesdays, Wednesdays being the best historically. And maybe we’ll get back to that. But I think what’s occurred over the past year is that there’s no more commute.
Pam Didner: It makes sense!
David Fortino: Yeah, every day– And it’s kind of like, everybody said, “yeah, every day is like Groundhog Day, and it’s true.
Pam Didner: I know I was gonna say that. Every day is like Groundhog Day! (laughs)
David Fortino: Yeah. And, and it’s, that’s really what that data says to me, which is that this past year, every day became the same. And, you know, I’m hoping that maybe it does get back to where we’ve got days that are better than others, just so that means that we as a society are moving forward, but that’s what it was. So.
Pam Didner: All right. So I have another, uh, question. Um, you specifically mentioned first-party consumption, and it’s better than third-party consumption. Can you explain what that is? And is first-party consumption, pretty much you a push print perspective, a gated content?
David Fortino: Correct? Yeah. So we’ll start with that. Um, so first-party data is about users cognizant deciding to share their registration data with you in return for registering for content. I see many consumption reports, or even ad tech industry reports, are all about third-party data sets and tracking anonymous user data sets and cohorts. Ours is the complete opposite. All the data and we don’t share the PII in the report, but all of it was based upon personally identifiable information of professionals engaging or registering for content.
The reason why, uh, we are of the mindset that first-party is far more compelling than third-party is the richness and the accuracy. When talking about first-party data, there’s no such thing as a person; you’re always talking about the person. It is. Pam, David, Jane or Jim. It’s not Agnes who has two dogs, uh, at one cat, and she loves an egg salad sandwich.
It’s, you know, every attribute about this person. And because of that, there’s a tremendous amount of, uh, you know, accuracy. But the richness of that data is far better than what you can get because of the third-party side of the marketplace. It’s always distilled into personas, which is extrapolated into lookalikes. And it’s kind of the industry doesn’t like saying this, but it is a form of guessing, right? You are modeling with high levels of, I suppose, internal confidence that those audiences show a propensity to look and feel and act, and eat, and drink and have hobbies similar to these other audiences.
In reality, first-party data kind of breaks all of those conventions and thoughts and says, “no, it’s Pam. And she just registered for this report. And I know exactly where she works, what her role is, her job level, her job function, the industry, her annualized revenues at the company. And so on.” It’s not a persona. It’s always a person.
Pam Didner: But the problem is David, a lot of time when you have people register, they may not give you the information.
David Fortino: So this is a good one.
Pam Didner: How many times you and I were registering for something we are giving out personal, a personal email, or a wrong phone number and no way to verify it.
David Fortino: So, but there is. That’s the cool part. So our technology allows professionals through a very abbreviated form to type in, especially if you put in your corporate email address. We’ll predictively pre-fill all of the data and don’t need you to type in the anything-your company, name, industry, company’s size, job title, and job level. We typically recognize a little over 80% of people who register for content and provide them with a seamless registration experience with zero typing.
Pam Didner: But that means you, our platform is set up only accept [00:19:00] the work address. Right?
David Fortino: We accept personal addresses as well, but yeah, then it does get into some data collection ambiguity for that simple reason. Our system even supports filtering out personal email addresses. If you were a client, let’s say, running a campaign, you can do that. It turns out the minority of business professionals use a personal email address, curiously, but it’s available there as a toggle.
Um, the reason it’s supported is that many salespeople hate seeing personal email addresses. They believe that if they see a personal email address, the person kind of doesn’t exist, they can’t go and look it up anywhere. They can’t use any data, enrichment tools, all of that stuff. So.
There is no perfect solution out there. We have many programmatic ways of identifying bogus data on the fly and doing inline error checking on forums and all that. But I’m not here to talk about that. The reality is there’s a lot of goodness there, but yeah, sure, if I wanted to manipulate data and lie outright for anything. Yeah, I could do that are one fail-safe. You have to put in a real email address, or you don’t get access to your content. It won’t get delivered to you. So that’s one really easy way of preventing that from occurring.
Pam Didner: Back to the report. And, uh, in your report, you identify three elements–security, predictability, simplicity–that content marketers need to incorporate to find success in 2021 and beyond. So can you talk a little bit about these three elements? How these elements can be incorporated into the company’s content strategies moving forward.
David Fortino: Yeah. So when you look at security and that security took on two different meanings this past year, right? It was, you know, corporate security network security, cybersecurity, but then there was real human security, right. People were not feeling safe. And so what was wild was to see a flood of marketers start creating content specifically weaving in COVID into it, into their topic, narrative, referencing how their solution is, is potentially going to alleviate concerns around that, workforce security, corporate security, and so on. Let’s just break this apart and focus on, uh, HR professionals, right? So out of all the content consumption, there was a ton from HR professionals, and it’s logical when you look at it that most of the companies in the world didn’t have a distributed workforce. They didn’t have a real formal plan for all of their employees working remote.
And so what happened was overnight, there was a switch flipped, and every HR senior manager panicked. Right. There was nowhere to go to get answers because no one has written this page yet. Right. So they were trying to say, “oh my goodness, where do I go to find out what I’m supposed to do because our CEO’s freaking out. What’s going to happen? And so they leaned into content as a way to educate themselves and in turn provide security and a trusting environment for not only their employees to kind of feel comfortable through this period of uncertainty, but also reassure the company itself to say like, “look, we’ve got a plan. We’re going to make this work. And you know, I’ve educated myself on topics solutions, vendors that can help address this.” That then nicely dovetails over into IT people because just because you didn’t have real cohesive work from home or remote strategy, uh, for your employees. Now you do, you’ve got a plan, but how the hell are you going to execute the plan? You need IT to roll out all of these solutions.
So that was a great example. Well, um, of the security and predictability and simplicity, that’s a constant tenant that I think you should always aim for. Right. This is a breakdown of the complicated nature – especially within B2B marketing, we love to pontificate, and I’ll sound all serious and amazing. Still, realistically, we’re just talking to humans. And so, yeah, why not break things down and keep things simple? Always.
Yes, you can produce maybe supplemental content that goes in super-rich and super deep, but giving people quick-hitting solutions to complicated topics is just a service that builds trust with your brand through your content. And so I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to do that. Just because of the urgency of COVID and the need to have quick answers, simplicity was, you know, front and center, right? You had to speak clearly concisely, remove all marketing jargon and just be as human as possible right now. And you’ll see some of that sticks, hopefully. And it doesn’t need or require a global pandemic for that to occur moving forward.
Pam Didner: When you are talking about these core elements, you are talking about how you can address the content to make it simple and the predictive outcomes and make them feel a sense of safety. To some extent, marketing probably subconsciously or consciously kind of follow that, uh, the guiding light, if you will. But I think the pandemic somehow reinforced that—or call it out strongly–that is something that you should always do. I think marketers are trying to do that. And then, maybe it has something to do with, uh, the, a specific, you know, company talking point or the awesome. I hate saying that you have to add self-serving (laughs) promotional talk as part of your content. And now it’s just a matter of that. Bring it out, make it a whole lot more, uh, clear in terms of how to make things easy and simple for your customers.
David Fortino: Yeah. And maybe the one thing, and I hadn’t thought about this till right now. Um, but maybe the one thing COVID taught us was that there was a necessity to move faster than we felt comfortable moving. And because of that, nothing could be produced in the way and the level of depth and refinement that maybe we would have normally felt comfortable doing or needing to do. And that’s where that diluted, watered-down homogenized messaging always comes into play where it’s like exactly what you’re saying, Pam like, “well, we know we’ve got to work in this corporate line.
Pam Didner: Seriously, we do have to work some of the corporate lies.
David Fortino: And then that’s like, “well, I know John down the hall is going to be complaining if I don’t talk about this. So we got to get that in there.” And before, you know, it, you’re trying to please 35 different people yet, yet the whole goal was just to please your customer, right. It was never designed to please anyone internally; it’s only to design to please your customer. So maybe that’s something else that we take away from this period.
Pam Didner: I do agree. I think that’s something that needs to be addressed actually inside the corporate. And, um, it’s really for everybody or the management to understand the customer’s needs and challenges and look at their products or speak to your product from that perspective. But you are right. And, um, I was one of them. You know, I talk about the product first. Uh, quite often, I mean, so I get it. So it’s, it’s hard. And ultimately, you just have to find that balance for the time being.
David Fortino: Absolutely.
Pam Didner: Yeah. And there’s another piece of information I found in the report. It was interesting, which is called the consumption gap. You can correct me if I’m off. The consumption gap is found when you registered for the content and how much time elapsed until you consume that content. I think in your report it shows about 29 hours — almost one day. And, uh, is there is any way from your perspective that the marketers can accelerate that gap time? For example, send out an email, uh, right after the content is registered. Is there anything marketers can do to narrow that gap? Or does it even matter to narrow that gap?
David Fortino: Yeah. So I was going to say, I would first counter that with the question is, do you want to? And I don’t have an answer, and it depends on your product, sophistication, product, product’s price point, and so on. But I’d ask yourself that question first. And the reason behind that is that to your point, let’s say it is a 55-page report that’s published someone registered for it if a sales reps reaching out 10 minutes after the person registered for the content–which for those of you listening, you know, someone who’s done this. Those leads are being delivered to sales in real-time. They typically are sent to them. Then SDR. SDR is reaching out with an email that lacks context, and it lacks, um, you know, attentiveness to what that company was doing.
And they’re trying to book a meeting, and it’s like this person has not read. Yeah. They’ve not even gotten to page one. So do not try that because the data supports the fact that that does not work. And so you cannot, and I know there’s some, there are some consulting firms out in the industry that would argue me, but they have no data to support their opinions.
Like this is 4.3 million leads processed, the time is what it is. It’s 29 hours. Um, It’s 15% greater than it was last year. And we’ll report on it next year as well. Hopefully, it goes in the other direction, but I think the way to focus on the first part of your question is how you collapse that time period? The one tip that is worth trying would be to highlight hidden nuggets of value that are contextually relevant to that person. And if you’ve got something timely and perfect for that, call attention to it and say, “Hey, yeah, I’ll be in touch in about a week or so.
Page 34 is awesome. Take a look at that. If there’s one thing you do, don’t read the whole thing. Just go to page 34. That’s it. And then we’ll talk.” I think that’s a way to collapse the gap. I don’t think you’ll ever get it to go because people are busy. So you need to also set the expectations accordingly.
Pam Didner: I think the key thing the B2B marketers need is to understand why the person register or even download the content. You have to think from the perspective in terms of how you nurture that. It’s not like that needs to pass to the SDR or even the salesperson to follow me. That’s still marketing’s job to somehow send out a couple, um, uh, email, like, for example, just the email you said, “Hey, I’m right here to help. And by the way, on pages 34 and 62, you should check it out. You’ll love it.”
David Fortino: Yeah. Yeah. And there’s, there are ways you can automate all of that.
Pam Didner: To me, it is nurturing. And it’s like, you send out a couple of emails to make sure that they keep the content on the top of their minds actually for a week or two. And that maybe, you know, if they are interested, they will reach out to you. That’s from my perspective.
David Fortino: No, I would agree.
Pam Didner: And the call to action of your last email you’re going to send out to them is, “Hey, you know what, uh, if you’re interested in it, please give us a call. Love to share with you more information about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Right? And they have a call to action that allowed them to initiate the first move. But I agree that lead is not fully qualified, and you should not pass that to the sales period.
David Fortino: Yeah. And I think that gets to, we can have a whole other hour talking about. SLS and attribution—
Pam Didner: And that sales qualified leads. Yeah, totally.
David Fortino: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, at, at the core, yeah, you’ve got to do some more work, right? The user just because they checked out your content does not mean they want to be your customer.
Pam Didner: So, with that being said, I read through the report. There’s a lot of interesting nuggets. And can you tell my listeners where they can download a report? It will be something that they also have to register (laughs).
David Fortino: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, it’s on netline.com. Uh, you can just go to the homepage. It’s right. Uh, right below the hero image and just also in the Resources tab, you can even engage with our chatbot. I’ll recommend it to you as well. Whatever you prefer. Um, net-l-i-n-e.com. Um, there’s also an. A companion tool, which is pretty cool and free, and you don’t need to register for it called Audience Explorer. It’s an interactive way of slicing and dicing and [00:36:30] manipulating the data that powered the report.
Pam Didner: Oh really?
David Fortino: So kind of think of it as you’ve got, um, the keys to look at all of the B2B content consumption behavior that’s occurred over the past 180 days slice and dice it based upon your ICP and your target customers. And you can kind of take a look at how they consume content. What are the things that are trending? What companies are most actively consuming content right now? And that’s completely free. You don’t need to register for it. And that’s also available off the homepage of this site.
Pam Didner: Excellent Audience Explore. David is so wonderful to have you on my show, and you share a lot of insights with me appreciate it. Before I let you go, I would like to ask you one question now, you know, slowly, the whole states and the countries, um, uh, opening up, well, the US or North America, if you will. I know certain countries are still, um, uh, struggling, and my thoughts are with them.
And what is the number one place that you would like to visit when you travel again?
David Fortino: Wow. Good question. Um, I think I’d love to just go to Europe, and I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Pam Didner: Do you have a specific country?
David Fortino: Belgium. Yeah, I was there probably ten years ago and fell in love. Yeah, I absolutely fell in love, and I’m a cyclist as well, and they have huge cycling culture there. Um, yeah, it’s beautiful. They’ve got great beer and cycling. What else could I want? So.
Pam Didner: Excellent. Thank you so much for joining me today.
David Fortino: Of course. Thank you
Pam Didner: For all of you who are listening, go to netline.com to download the report. And if you are interested in exploring the Audience Explorer, the website, knock yourself out.